Details

    • Type: Improvement Improvement
    • Status: Closed
    • Priority: Minor Minor
    • Resolution: Duplicate
    • Affects Version/s: None
    • Fix Version/s: Trunk
    • Component/s: specialpurpose/pos
    • Labels:
      None

      Description

      I often need to create a Sales Order for my customers that contain backordered items. When the backordered items arrive, my customers are notified and they come into the store to collect the items. Generally, when customers are face-to-face, we prefer to use the POS as customers are comfortable receiving the POS generated receipts.

      It would be very useful to be able to load a Sales Order into the POS application by specifying the order #.

        Issue Links

          Activity

          Hide
          Jacques Le Roux added a comment -

          Iain,

          The Save/Load Sales mechanism uses "Shopping Lists". So you may already use "Shopping Lists" from eCommerce part. I think it's a better way to deal with your case because there will not be duplicate orders. Let me know what you think before I close this issue.

          Thanks

          Show
          Jacques Le Roux added a comment - Iain, The Save/Load Sales mechanism uses "Shopping Lists". So you may already use "Shopping Lists" from eCommerce part. I think it's a better way to deal with your case because there will not be duplicate orders. Let me know what you think before I close this issue. Thanks
          Hide
          Iain Fogg added a comment -

          Jacques,

          Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately I'm not in front of a system where I can run up POS at the moment, so forgive me if this is a question/comment that would be easily resolved with some experimentation...

          In my scenario, my customer requests a product I do not have in stock. I need to

          a) Record that Customer A has ordered X quantity of product Y
          b) Record any deposits paid by the customer (most of the time this is nil)
          c) Generate a purchase order for the product(s) - usually consolidate orders a couple of times a week
          d) When the stock arrives from the supplier, identify the products that fulfil customer orders, and notify the customer

          Note, at this time there is no online interaction with my customers (all face-to-face or via phone).

          Generally, I have gone down the path of creating a Sales Order for (a) because it lets me do (b), and it automatically generates the necessary requirements that makes (c) straightforward. (d) still requires a bit of manual scanning, and it would be great if I could run a report that reconciles purchase shipment receipts against sales orders (or if the Facility receive shipment flagged that received items fulfil orders).

          I don't use manually entered Requirements for (a) because I can't directly associate a requirement with a customer. To do this, I need to have a Request, but I find the use-model for Requests a bit cumbersome. Besides, I can't do (b) with Requests/Requirements.

          As to Shopping Lists, to the best of my knowledge there would be no Requirements generated if I created a Shopping List for the customer - is that correct? Also, I cannot record any deposits (b).

          I'll be the first to admit that I might have missed something in the "correct" use of Orders/Requirements/Requests/ShoppingLists, but it seems that creating the Sales Order is the "right" thing to do to allow me to efficiently handle (a)-(d). If I'm right about that, then what I need is the ability to start the Sales Order in Order Manager, and finish it in POS.

          Happy to be corrected, as always.

          Cheers, Iain

          Show
          Iain Fogg added a comment - Jacques, Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately I'm not in front of a system where I can run up POS at the moment, so forgive me if this is a question/comment that would be easily resolved with some experimentation... In my scenario, my customer requests a product I do not have in stock. I need to a) Record that Customer A has ordered X quantity of product Y b) Record any deposits paid by the customer (most of the time this is nil) c) Generate a purchase order for the product(s) - usually consolidate orders a couple of times a week d) When the stock arrives from the supplier, identify the products that fulfil customer orders, and notify the customer Note, at this time there is no online interaction with my customers (all face-to-face or via phone). Generally, I have gone down the path of creating a Sales Order for (a) because it lets me do (b), and it automatically generates the necessary requirements that makes (c) straightforward. (d) still requires a bit of manual scanning, and it would be great if I could run a report that reconciles purchase shipment receipts against sales orders (or if the Facility receive shipment flagged that received items fulfil orders). I don't use manually entered Requirements for (a) because I can't directly associate a requirement with a customer. To do this, I need to have a Request, but I find the use-model for Requests a bit cumbersome. Besides, I can't do (b) with Requests/Requirements. As to Shopping Lists, to the best of my knowledge there would be no Requirements generated if I created a Shopping List for the customer - is that correct? Also, I cannot record any deposits (b). I'll be the first to admit that I might have missed something in the "correct" use of Orders/Requirements/Requests/ShoppingLists, but it seems that creating the Sales Order is the "right" thing to do to allow me to efficiently handle (a)-(d). If I'm right about that, then what I need is the ability to start the Sales Order in Order Manager, and finish it in POS. Happy to be corrected, as always. Cheers, Iain
          Hide
          Jacques Le Roux added a comment -

          Iain,

          OK I see the point. You are right Shopping Lists are not associated with requirements and you can't record any deposits associated to a Shopping List.

          But if you load an order from backend to the POS you will be facing the problem of duplicate orders because you will have an order from backend and an order from POS. If you don't fulfill (ie approve/complete) the 1st will it be ok for you ?

          In this case it should not be too difficult to create a new mechanism from POS LoadSale mechanism. This mechanims was created to store and recall sales from the POS hence the Shopping List.

          Show
          Jacques Le Roux added a comment - Iain, OK I see the point. You are right Shopping Lists are not associated with requirements and you can't record any deposits associated to a Shopping List. But if you load an order from backend to the POS you will be facing the problem of duplicate orders because you will have an order from backend and an order from POS. If you don't fulfill (ie approve/complete) the 1st will it be ok for you ? In this case it should not be too difficult to create a new mechanism from POS LoadSale mechanism. This mechanims was created to store and recall sales from the POS hence the Shopping List.
          Hide
          David N. Welton added a comment -

          "it would be great if I could run a report that reconciles purchase shipment receipts against sales orders (or if the Facility receive shipment flagged that received items fulfil orders)."

          Sort of off topic for this bug report, but that is the sort of functionality that is absolutely critical for a shop doing a large amount of orders.

          Show
          David N. Welton added a comment - "it would be great if I could run a report that reconciles purchase shipment receipts against sales orders (or if the Facility receive shipment flagged that received items fulfil orders)." Sort of off topic for this bug report, but that is the sort of functionality that is absolutely critical for a shop doing a large amount of orders.
          Hide
          Iain Fogg added a comment -

          David,

          Couldn't agree more. I'll raise a separate issue for this...

          Cheers, Iain


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          Show
          Iain Fogg added a comment - David, Couldn't agree more. I'll raise a separate issue for this... Cheers, Iain – No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.16.0/609 - Release Date: 29/12/2006
          Hide
          Iain Fogg added a comment -

          Jacques,

          Hmmm, not knowing the details of the implementation, I was hoping that a POS sale was the same as an Order Manager sale, and that having POS load the sale created by the Order Manager would be completely transparent (provided we point POS as the order id).

          Having POS create a new sales order would not be ideal because (I presume) things like inventory management get screwed up. For example, when I create the order in Order Mgr, the item(s) are backordered, but ATP is decremented. Also, if the customer pays a deposit I would record that payment in the Order Manager at the time of the order, and in the ideal world POS would be able to pick that up too and include it in the PAY screen.

          Maybe this is asking too much of the current implementation of POS? It sounds like there is a fair bit (too much?) of independent business logic coded into the POS application, rather than leveraging the backend services?

          Cheers, Iain

          Show
          Iain Fogg added a comment - Jacques, Hmmm, not knowing the details of the implementation, I was hoping that a POS sale was the same as an Order Manager sale, and that having POS load the sale created by the Order Manager would be completely transparent (provided we point POS as the order id). Having POS create a new sales order would not be ideal because (I presume) things like inventory management get screwed up. For example, when I create the order in Order Mgr, the item(s) are backordered, but ATP is decremented. Also, if the customer pays a deposit I would record that payment in the Order Manager at the time of the order, and in the ideal world POS would be able to pick that up too and include it in the PAY screen. Maybe this is asking too much of the current implementation of POS? It sounds like there is a fair bit (too much?) of independent business logic coded into the POS application, rather than leveraging the backend services? Cheers, Iain
          Hide
          Jacques Le Roux added a comment -

          Iain,

          Indeed a POS sale is the same as a sale order but it is immediatly fulfilled (as you may know this depends on a store parameter). For the moment AFAIK (Andy Zeneski created all that, he may correct me if I'm wrong ;o) the POS is only able to create orders not load them from other parts of the soft.

          Yes I believe that something is missing to achieve your need. Does not mean that it's imposible to do in a reasonnable time...

          Show
          Jacques Le Roux added a comment - Iain, Indeed a POS sale is the same as a sale order but it is immediatly fulfilled (as you may know this depends on a store parameter). For the moment AFAIK (Andy Zeneski created all that, he may correct me if I'm wrong ;o) the POS is only able to create orders not load them from other parts of the soft. Yes I believe that something is missing to achieve your need. Does not mean that it's imposible to do in a reasonnable time...
          Hide
          Scott Gray added a comment -

          Our shop takes a huge amount of backorders and this would be a critical need for us. Iain, how are creating the backorders at the moment? If the pos product store is set to immediately fulfill orders wouldn't this be stopping you from creating backorders at all?

          Show
          Scott Gray added a comment - Our shop takes a huge amount of backorders and this would be a critical need for us. Iain, how are creating the backorders at the moment? If the pos product store is set to immediately fulfill orders wouldn't this be stopping you from creating backorders at all?
          Hide
          Iain Fogg added a comment -

          Scott,

          If a customer requests something not in stock, we create a Sales Order in Order Mgr. It would be great if we could eventually do it via POS, but that's not important for us right now.

          Show
          Iain Fogg added a comment - Scott, If a customer requests something not in stock, we create a Sales Order in Order Mgr. It would be great if we could eventually do it via POS, but that's not important for us right now.
          Hide
          Scott Gray added a comment -

          What I mean is, when you create the order in the backend isn't the that order immediately fulfilled the same as a pos order would be?

          I'm having a play at getting the pos to load a sales order at the moment, from what I can see it might just be a matter of replacing the pos cart with a cart loaded from the order and then just tidying up a few other things.

          Show
          Scott Gray added a comment - What I mean is, when you create the order in the backend isn't the that order immediately fulfilled the same as a pos order would be? I'm having a play at getting the pos to load a sales order at the moment, from what I can see it might just be a matter of replacing the pos cart with a cart loaded from the order and then just tidying up a few other things.
          Hide
          Jacques Le Roux added a comment -

          Scott,

          Yes that should be the way !

          Show
          Jacques Le Roux added a comment - Scott, Yes that should be the way !
          Hide
          Iain Fogg added a comment -

          Scott,

          I have 2 different stores. My "POS store" immediately fulfills, and my "Other store" doesn't. The reason I set up this way was pretty basic. When sales are made through the POS, the customer is standing in front of the counter with the article they want in their hand. If they request something we don't have in stock, we flip over to the Order Manager and raise a Sales Order.The automatically generates a requirement for the product, and some time later we convert that requirement into an item on a PO.

          This might not be the most sensible arrangement, but it works. We prefer to use the POS for most face-to-face transactions because it is much, much faster than using the backend, plus the simple configuration of receipt printers, touch screen technologies, etc makes it easy to set up.

          The downside of having very different platforms for handling "in stock" and "not in stock" sales is that the experience we give the customer can vary quite a bit. For example, if the customer wants to pre-pay for an order, we generally write out a receipt by hand ('cause I haven't got round to beautifying the OFBiz A4-size sales invoices, and besides our large format printers are in the back-office, not out in the POS environment). As another example, the new implementation of Billing Accounts works well (based on my preliminary testing) in the Order Manager, but doesn't work yet in POS. And then there is Gift Certificates, which doesn't work properly in either environment (although from what I read everyone's very happy with the GC implementation in the ecommerce environment).

          At the end of the day, I'm trying to make the best of an imperfect solution, while madly trying to find time to make some meaningful contributions to improve things. I remain grateful to all the fine folks who ARE making things better

          Show
          Iain Fogg added a comment - Scott, I have 2 different stores. My "POS store" immediately fulfills, and my "Other store" doesn't. The reason I set up this way was pretty basic. When sales are made through the POS, the customer is standing in front of the counter with the article they want in their hand. If they request something we don't have in stock, we flip over to the Order Manager and raise a Sales Order.The automatically generates a requirement for the product, and some time later we convert that requirement into an item on a PO. This might not be the most sensible arrangement, but it works. We prefer to use the POS for most face-to-face transactions because it is much, much faster than using the backend, plus the simple configuration of receipt printers, touch screen technologies, etc makes it easy to set up. The downside of having very different platforms for handling "in stock" and "not in stock" sales is that the experience we give the customer can vary quite a bit. For example, if the customer wants to pre-pay for an order, we generally write out a receipt by hand ('cause I haven't got round to beautifying the OFBiz A4-size sales invoices, and besides our large format printers are in the back-office, not out in the POS environment). As another example, the new implementation of Billing Accounts works well (based on my preliminary testing) in the Order Manager, but doesn't work yet in POS. And then there is Gift Certificates, which doesn't work properly in either environment (although from what I read everyone's very happy with the GC implementation in the ecommerce environment). At the end of the day, I'm trying to make the best of an imperfect solution, while madly trying to find time to make some meaningful contributions to improve things. I remain grateful to all the fine folks who ARE making things better
          Hide
          Scott Gray added a comment -

          I've had a good go at this, but it looks like we need to wait until a few other issues are resolved:
          http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-431
          http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-424
          These issues are related to editing orders which is needed for this issue, I had a go a while back at working on these but the code is too complex for me with eecas and secas firing all over the place.

          Show
          Scott Gray added a comment - I've had a good go at this, but it looks like we need to wait until a few other issues are resolved: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-431 http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-424 These issues are related to editing orders which is needed for this issue, I had a go a while back at working on these but the code is too complex for me with eecas and secas firing all over the place.
          Hide
          Ray Barlow added a comment -

          Iain,

          "it would be great if I could run a report that reconciles purchase shipment receipts against sales orders (or if the Facility receive shipment flagged that received items fulfill orders)."

          Just a suggestion but if you are managing inventory then you can use the pick list screens to identify orders that can be fulfilled i.e. do goods receipting on your purchase orders then see what orders have turned up the in picking section of the facility manager as those are the ones you should be able to fulfill.

          Scott if you have a patch for this issue it would be great if you could attached it here anyway, regardless of other bugs getting in the way.

          Ray

          Show
          Ray Barlow added a comment - Iain, "it would be great if I could run a report that reconciles purchase shipment receipts against sales orders (or if the Facility receive shipment flagged that received items fulfill orders)." Just a suggestion but if you are managing inventory then you can use the pick list screens to identify orders that can be fulfilled i.e. do goods receipting on your purchase orders then see what orders have turned up the in picking section of the facility manager as those are the ones you should be able to fulfill. Scott if you have a patch for this issue it would be great if you could attached it here anyway, regardless of other bugs getting in the way. Ray
          Hide
          Iain Fogg added a comment -

          Ray,

          Great suggestion! Believe it or not, we've been running OFBiz in production for about 3 months now and until recently haven't needed to bother with the outbound shipping facilities, hence I haven't looked too hard at the picking/packing stuff.

          I need to experiment a bit more, and clean up some of my sales orders, but the picking/packing tools look like they will do the job. I might look at making a few minor mods, like hyperlinking SO numbers so you can go straight to the order to get the customer details/

          Cheers, Iain

          Show
          Iain Fogg added a comment - Ray, Great suggestion! Believe it or not, we've been running OFBiz in production for about 3 months now and until recently haven't needed to bother with the outbound shipping facilities, hence I haven't looked too hard at the picking/packing stuff. I need to experiment a bit more, and clean up some of my sales orders, but the picking/packing tools look like they will do the job. I might look at making a few minor mods, like hyperlinking SO numbers so you can go straight to the order to get the customer details/ Cheers, Iain
          Hide
          Scott Gray added a comment -

          The code I had worked on was a very initial attempt and on reflection I think I was going about things the wrong way. Rather than loading the order into POS it would be better to load a packing slip, collect any payments and then set it to shipped or whatever.

          Show
          Scott Gray added a comment - The code I had worked on was a very initial attempt and on reflection I think I was going about things the wrong way. Rather than loading the order into POS it would be better to load a packing slip, collect any payments and then set it to shipped or whatever.
          Hide
          Iain Fogg added a comment -

          Scott et al,

          That would make some sense. Right now, when shipments arrive that can fulfill orders we have a pretty simple procedure to call the customer and stash the items away until they arrive. We definitely need to do better than that and use the pick/pack tools to track this activity.

          I think if we did this, then the suggestion of POS being able to load a packing slip might achieve the desired result.

          I have to admit that I haven't explored the data model sufficiently to understand the implications for implementing capability of POS being able to "finish off" an order started using the back-office components. I will try to invest some time in this in the near future, but I need to upgrade to the latest SVN first, and some folks advised leaving this a little bit longer until things settle down.

          Cheers, Iain

          Show
          Iain Fogg added a comment - Scott et al, That would make some sense. Right now, when shipments arrive that can fulfill orders we have a pretty simple procedure to call the customer and stash the items away until they arrive. We definitely need to do better than that and use the pick/pack tools to track this activity. I think if we did this, then the suggestion of POS being able to load a packing slip might achieve the desired result. I have to admit that I haven't explored the data model sufficiently to understand the implications for implementing capability of POS being able to "finish off" an order started using the back-office components. I will try to invest some time in this in the near future, but I need to upgrade to the latest SVN first, and some folks advised leaving this a little bit longer until things settle down. Cheers, Iain
          Hide
          Jacopo Cappellato added a comment -

          I'm a bit confused by the "INCORPORATING ISSUE" thing... but this seems really a "pos" issue.

          Show
          Jacopo Cappellato added a comment - I'm a bit confused by the "INCORPORATING ISSUE" thing... but this seems really a "pos" issue.
          Hide
          Iain Fogg added a comment -

          All,

          I raised this issue last year, and since I still run last years version of OFBiz in my production environment I'm really not sure if anyone has had time to work on it or not - many thanks if you have!

          This is still a big issue for my business so I wouldn't like to see it dropped off the radar, but if it would be/has been covered by another issue - no problems.

          My goal over the holiday season is to upgrade to the (at least) release 4, contribute some of the mods I've made over the last 12 months, and maybe even pull my finger out and help address some of the issues I raised way back when!

          I think we need a new project to try and design a day with a few more hours in it - maybe a drop-in component for OFBiz?

          Cheers, Iain

          Show
          Iain Fogg added a comment - All, I raised this issue last year, and since I still run last years version of OFBiz in my production environment I'm really not sure if anyone has had time to work on it or not - many thanks if you have! This is still a big issue for my business so I wouldn't like to see it dropped off the radar, but if it would be/has been covered by another issue - no problems. My goal over the holiday season is to upgrade to the (at least) release 4, contribute some of the mods I've made over the last 12 months, and maybe even pull my finger out and help address some of the issues I raised way back when! I think we need a new project to try and design a day with a few more hours in it - maybe a drop-in component for OFBiz? Cheers, Iain

            People

            • Assignee:
              Jacques Le Roux
              Reporter:
              Iain Fogg
            • Votes:
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              Watchers:
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              Dates

              • Created:
                Updated:
                Resolved:

                Development