Legal Discuss
  1. Legal Discuss
  2. LEGAL-7

Is it allowed for a project to ship code that depends on Hibernate (uses its native API) if the code is required to make any use of the project?

    Details

    • Type: Question Question
    • Status: Closed
    • Priority: Major Major
    • Resolution: Fixed
    • Labels:
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        Activity

        Transition Time In Source Status Execution Times Last Executer Last Execution Date
        Open Open Resolved Resolved
        450d 17h 6m 1 Craig L Russell 03/Sep/09 23:13
        Resolved Resolved Closed Closed
        106d 8h 14m 1 Henri Yandell 19/Dec/09 06:28
        Henri Yandell made changes -
        Status Resolved [ 5 ] Closed [ 6 ]
        Hide
        Niclas Hedhman added a comment -

        Well, Hibernate has certain features that are not present in JPA. We have in an non-ASF project a codebase that uses the reflective access part, where there are no POJOs involved. That said, Apache projects looking for Hibernate, should first and foremost consider JPA (or JDO) in its standard form, in which the project can have a full, hard and distributed dependency, and only "when all else fails" go with System Requirments and optional features. And the System Requirements scenario must still provide solution for LGPL-free deployment/distribution if some users insist on that.

        Show
        Niclas Hedhman added a comment - Well, Hibernate has certain features that are not present in JPA. We have in an non-ASF project a codebase that uses the reflective access part, where there are no POJOs involved. That said, Apache projects looking for Hibernate, should first and foremost consider JPA (or JDO) in its standard form, in which the project can have a full, hard and distributed dependency, and only "when all else fails" go with System Requirments and optional features. And the System Requirements scenario must still provide solution for LGPL-free deployment/distribution if some users insist on that.
        Craig L Russell made changes -
        Status Open [ 1 ] Resolved [ 5 ]
        Assignee Craig Russell [ clr ]
        Resolution Fixed [ 1 ]
        Hide
        Craig L Russell added a comment -

        From the discussion on optional dependencies and system requirements http://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html#options-optional a project might make Hibernate a system dependency or alternatively have use of Hibernate be an optional feature.

        Considering that Hibernate is currently an implementation of the Java Persistence API, which has an Apache-licensed implementation, it's unlikely that a project would need either a system dependency on, or an optional feature specifically for, Hibernate.

        Show
        Craig L Russell added a comment - From the discussion on optional dependencies and system requirements http://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html#options-optional a project might make Hibernate a system dependency or alternatively have use of Hibernate be an optional feature. Considering that Hibernate is currently an implementation of the Java Persistence API, which has an Apache-licensed implementation, it's unlikely that a project would need either a system dependency on, or an optional feature specifically for, Hibernate.
        Hide
        Jukka Zitting added a comment -

        Oops, I misread the year of Henri's last comment.

        As far as I can tell, the original question is not blocking to any current project and thus I would suggest that we resolve this as Won't Fix until we have an actual case like this.

        Henri's proposed addition looks good to me, though shouldn't the note rather be in the LICENSE file?

        Show
        Jukka Zitting added a comment - Oops, I misread the year of Henri's last comment. As far as I can tell, the original question is not blocking to any current project and thus I would suggest that we resolve this as Won't Fix until we have an actual case like this. Henri's proposed addition looks good to me, though shouldn't the note rather be in the LICENSE file?
        Hide
        Jukka Zitting added a comment -

        What's the status of this issue? There hasn't been any activity in a year.

        Show
        Jukka Zitting added a comment - What's the status of this issue? There hasn't been any activity in a year.
        Hide
        Henri Yandell added a comment -

        Proposed addition to resolved.html Category X section:

        "There may be situations in which works under these licenses may be distributed in an Apache project. Please feel free to raise the question with the legal-discuss mailing list or open a JIRA. Generally the less core or required the category X licensed work to the main Apache project, the more likely it is to be allowed. For users - these situations will always be clearly noted in the NOTICE file. "

        Show
        Henri Yandell added a comment - Proposed addition to resolved.html Category X section: "There may be situations in which works under these licenses may be distributed in an Apache project. Please feel free to raise the question with the legal-discuss mailing list or open a JIRA. Generally the less core or required the category X licensed work to the main Apache project, the more likely it is to be allowed. For users - these situations will always be clearly noted in the NOTICE file. "
        Hide
        Matthieu Riou added a comment -

        I don't know about any such a project right now in the incubator (which is the primary target, existing PMCs already avoid Hibernate). But I know of a few projects that had to remove their hard dependency on Hibernate as part of their graduation process. Roller and ODE are two of them for example.

        Show
        Matthieu Riou added a comment - I don't know about any such a project right now in the incubator (which is the primary target, existing PMCs already avoid Hibernate). But I know of a few projects that had to remove their hard dependency on Hibernate as part of their graduation process. Roller and ODE are two of them for example.
        Hide
        Sam Ruby added a comment -

        What I meant was: is there a project which actively is seeking to ship code that has a hard dependency on Hibernate at this time? The answer to my question should not change the answer to the original question, but does help determine the urgency of the original question.

        Show
        Sam Ruby added a comment - What I meant was: is there a project which actively is seeking to ship code that has a hard dependency on Hibernate at this time? The answer to my question should not change the answer to the original question, but does help determine the urgency of the original question.
        Hide
        Henri Yandell added a comment -

        From a licensing point of view, I think the answer is "Yes". So this becomes a policy question for a PMC.

        Show
        Henri Yandell added a comment - From a licensing point of view, I think the answer is "Yes". So this becomes a policy question for a PMC.
        Hide
        Sam Ruby added a comment -

        Is this a hypothetical question?

        Show
        Sam Ruby added a comment - Is this a hypothetical question?
        Niall Pemberton made changes -
        Link This issue is related to LEGAL-10 [ LEGAL-10 ]
        Niall Pemberton made changes -
        Link This issue is related to LEGAL-9 [ LEGAL-9 ]
        Niall Pemberton made changes -
        Field Original Value New Value
        Link This issue is related to LEGAL-8 [ LEGAL-8 ]
        Craig L Russell created issue -

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          • Assignee:
            Craig L Russell
            Reporter:
            Craig L Russell
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              Updated:
              Resolved:

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