Details

    • Type: Task Task
    • Status: Closed
    • Priority: Major Major
    • Resolution: Fixed
    • Affects Version/s: None
    • Fix Version/s: Graduating
    • Component/s: None
    • Labels:
      None

      Description

      Check project name trademark issues. Question, what about jspwiki.org domain?

        Activity

        Hide
        Andrew Jaquith added a comment -

        Closing this issue. There are no trademark conflicts for "JSPWiki" per my earlier analysis.

        There are other tasks that need to be done, such as moving doc.jspwiki.org to ASF. However, these should not block graduation.

        If anyone disagrees, please re-open. However, I'd prefer to treat this issue narrowly so that we can close it.

        Show
        Andrew Jaquith added a comment - Closing this issue. There are no trademark conflicts for "JSPWiki" per my earlier analysis. There are other tasks that need to be done, such as moving doc.jspwiki.org to ASF. However, these should not block graduation. If anyone disagrees, please re-open. However, I'd prefer to treat this issue narrowly so that we can close it.
        Hide
        Harry Metske added a comment -

        Andrew, I'm sorry, it is indeed not mentioned in the guide itself, but in several status files (pointed to by the guide), for example :
        http://incubator.apache.org/projects/jaxme.html
        http://incubator.apache.org/projects/juddi.html

        Show
        Harry Metske added a comment - Andrew, I'm sorry, it is indeed not mentioned in the guide itself, but in several status files (pointed to by the guide), for example : http://incubator.apache.org/projects/jaxme.html http://incubator.apache.org/projects/juddi.html
        Hide
        Andrew Jaquith added a comment -

        @Harry: NameProtect is a commercial service that requires a login (and presumably, the payment of fees, although their website doesn't say so directly). The Apache guidance on project naming at http://www.apache.org/dev/project-names.html doesn't say anything about using NameProtect. I think the due diligence I've performed should be satisfactory.

        @Janne: You are right that trademarks may form through repeated use. And yes, it would be a little weird if the ownership of the trademark JSPWiki passes to Apache, but not the domain jspwiki.org. Seems to me you have three choices:

        • Grant Apache rights to use the JSPWiki trademark, but retain ownership yourself (which I suspect is a non-starter)
        • Transfer the ownership of "JSPWiki" to Apache, but retain the rights to use jspwiki.org for your use
        • Pick another project name (not JSPWiki) that fulfills Apache naming guidelines, but doesn't infringe your trademark. I suspect this is also a non-starter.

        Not sure how to proceed here. As far as demonstrating non-infringement is concerned, I think we're done. Putting together a "side-letter" agreement between Janne and Apache, it seems to me, would be a separate task.

        Show
        Andrew Jaquith added a comment - @Harry: NameProtect is a commercial service that requires a login (and presumably, the payment of fees, although their website doesn't say so directly). The Apache guidance on project naming at http://www.apache.org/dev/project-names.html doesn't say anything about using NameProtect. I think the due diligence I've performed should be satisfactory. @Janne: You are right that trademarks may form through repeated use. And yes, it would be a little weird if the ownership of the trademark JSPWiki passes to Apache, but not the domain jspwiki.org. Seems to me you have three choices: Grant Apache rights to use the JSPWiki trademark, but retain ownership yourself (which I suspect is a non-starter) Transfer the ownership of "JSPWiki" to Apache, but retain the rights to use jspwiki.org for your use Pick another project name (not JSPWiki) that fulfills Apache naming guidelines, but doesn't infringe your trademark. I suspect this is also a non-starter. Not sure how to proceed here. As far as demonstrating non-infringement is concerned, I think we're done. Putting together a "side-letter" agreement between Janne and Apache, it seems to me, would be a separate task.
        Hide
        Harry Metske added a comment -

        Agreed with you Andrew, the first few comments are off-topic.
        About the real topic, it seems to me that there is enough evidence that there are no trademark issues, although the ASF guide suggests that you should check http://www.nameprotect.com.
        I checked that site quickly yesterday but could not find a direct search or check "button", maybe you need to register there first (it looks like you did that too for the other sites ?).

        Show
        Harry Metske added a comment - Agreed with you Andrew, the first few comments are off-topic. About the real topic, it seems to me that there is enough evidence that there are no trademark issues, although the ASF guide suggests that you should check http://www.nameprotect.com . I checked that site quickly yesterday but could not find a direct search or check "button", maybe you need to register there first (it looks like you did that too for the other sites ?).
        Hide
        Janne Jalkanen added a comment -

        It kind of is on-topic because you could argue that jspwiki is a trademark owned by me. Even if it's not registered, a trademark may form through repeated use. So, that means that it's kind of odd if we transfer the ownership of the trademark to Apache, but not jspwiki.org - at least that needs to be discussed with legal.

        Show
        Janne Jalkanen added a comment - It kind of is on-topic because you could argue that jspwiki is a trademark owned by me. Even if it's not registered, a trademark may form through repeated use. So, that means that it's kind of odd if we transfer the ownership of the trademark to Apache, but not jspwiki.org - at least that needs to be discussed with legal.
        Hide
        Andrew Jaquith added a comment -

        I do not know where we are supposed to document this stuff, but when we do figure that out, here's a description of the steps I undertook to verify that JSPWiki was not a previously registered trademark in the US and EU:

        On 26 May 2009, Andrew Jaquith determined that JSPWiki was not a registered trademark in the United States. To do this, he searched the Trademark Electronic Search System (TESS), operated by the United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO). The term he used was JSPWiki, meaning that "JSPWiki" could appear by itself, or as a prefix or suffix to another trademark. The search was performed for live and dead terms, for for all fields: owner name and address, serial number, and combined word mark. No matches were found. The lack of matches means that the USPTO has no records of JSPWiki as a trademark. It is possible, however, that JSPWiki is used by another party as an (unregistered) service mark.

        http://www.uspto.gov/main/trademarks.htm

        Andrew performed a similar search at the EU Office for Harmonization of the Internal Market (OHIM), at the Community Trademark Online database (CTM-ONLINE).

        http://oami.europa.eu/ows/rw/pages/QPLUS/databases/searchCTM.en.do

        To verify that JSPWiki was not used as a service mark, Andrew performed a Google search for "JSPWiki" on 26 May. The first 100 hits were all related to the JSPWiki project (i.e., the Apache Incubator JSPWiki project or its predecessors). Andrew also searched Freshmeat.net and Sourceforge.net for "JSPWiki." All hits (1 and 7 hits, respectively) referred solely to the JSPWiki project, or to an extension project built with, or integrated with, JSPWiki.

        In summary: the US and EU trademark searches, and the Google search, suggest that the project name JSPWiki does not conflict with a previously registered trademark.

        Show
        Andrew Jaquith added a comment - I do not know where we are supposed to document this stuff, but when we do figure that out, here's a description of the steps I undertook to verify that JSPWiki was not a previously registered trademark in the US and EU: On 26 May 2009, Andrew Jaquith determined that JSPWiki was not a registered trademark in the United States. To do this, he searched the Trademark Electronic Search System (TESS), operated by the United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO). The term he used was JSPWiki , meaning that "JSPWiki" could appear by itself, or as a prefix or suffix to another trademark. The search was performed for live and dead terms, for for all fields: owner name and address, serial number, and combined word mark. No matches were found. The lack of matches means that the USPTO has no records of JSPWiki as a trademark. It is possible, however, that JSPWiki is used by another party as an (unregistered) service mark. http://www.uspto.gov/main/trademarks.htm Andrew performed a similar search at the EU Office for Harmonization of the Internal Market (OHIM), at the Community Trademark Online database (CTM-ONLINE). http://oami.europa.eu/ows/rw/pages/QPLUS/databases/searchCTM.en.do To verify that JSPWiki was not used as a service mark, Andrew performed a Google search for "JSPWiki" on 26 May. The first 100 hits were all related to the JSPWiki project (i.e., the Apache Incubator JSPWiki project or its predecessors). Andrew also searched Freshmeat.net and Sourceforge.net for "JSPWiki." All hits (1 and 7 hits, respectively) referred solely to the JSPWiki project, or to an extension project built with, or integrated with, JSPWiki. In summary: the US and EU trademark searches, and the Google search, suggest that the project name JSPWiki does not conflict with a previously registered trademark.
        Hide
        Andrew Jaquith added a comment -

        This seems like off-topic conversation to me. Unless I am mistaken, project trademark issues are pretty narrow; there are either existing trademarks for "JSPWiki" in various jurisdictions, or there are not. Domain issues, it seems to me, should be considered separately. Or did I mis-interpret the intent of this issue?

        Show
        Andrew Jaquith added a comment - This seems like off-topic conversation to me. Unless I am mistaken, project trademark issues are pretty narrow; there are either existing trademarks for "JSPWiki" in various jurisdictions, or there are not. Domain issues, it seems to me, should be considered separately. Or did I mis-interpret the intent of this issue?
        Hide
        Janne Jalkanen added a comment -

        Yes, that's why I suggested moving content from doc.jspwiki.org instead of www.jspwiki.org. The license issue is quite clear (and CC license also allows the relicensing of the content, so we can slap an Apache license on top of it without asking anyone's permission).

        Changing hosting providers (or domain name) for www.jspwiki.org is not a problem, I think.

        Show
        Janne Jalkanen added a comment - Yes, that's why I suggested moving content from doc.jspwiki.org instead of www.jspwiki.org. The license issue is quite clear (and CC license also allows the relicensing of the content, so we can slap an Apache license on top of it without asking anyone's permission). Changing hosting providers (or domain name) for www.jspwiki.org is not a problem, I think.
        Hide
        Murray Altheim added a comment -

        This is really one of those gotchas that might be a recommendation to people setting up wikis.
        Unless I've missed it, there is no license on the content of the jspwiki.org site that would actually
        permit movement of the content over to a different site.

        There's three things to this:

        1. intellectual property (the ownership rights, legal and moral, attributed to the creator of a work)

        2. copyright (the binding between IP and the law in a given country, or at least the signatories
        of the Paris Convention)

        3. license (the legal statement of the distribution and usage rights of those wishing to view and/or
        re-use the content)

        The jspwiki.org site contains the text "Copyright © 2009 individual contributors", which establishes
        the intellectual property ownership of the content to reside with the original contributors. That
        effectively locks the content to that site, unless one could contact all the contributors and get them
        to sign off on moving it, which would be next to impossible. You can't retroactively create a license
        for the content either since that license wasn't in place at the time the contributors were contributing.
        So that content must remain there. Even pulling off individual revisions of known contributors
        would be extremely difficult.

        The contents of the doc.jspwiki.org site are labeled "(c) Copyrighted work licensed under the
        Creative Commons BY-3.0 License.", so the content there can be moved as according to that
        license.

        This is one of the reasons I've been trying (on wikis I've managed) to get a license statement in
        place (generally CC for content works fine) prior to the first person contributing anything.

        In practice it's probably very unlikely that anyone who's contributed to jspwiki.org would put up any
        fuss about moving the content, but legally it'd be an issue that perhaps the Apache Foundation
        might be wary of...

        Show
        Murray Altheim added a comment - This is really one of those gotchas that might be a recommendation to people setting up wikis. Unless I've missed it, there is no license on the content of the jspwiki.org site that would actually permit movement of the content over to a different site. There's three things to this: 1. intellectual property (the ownership rights, legal and moral, attributed to the creator of a work) 2. copyright (the binding between IP and the law in a given country, or at least the signatories of the Paris Convention) 3. license (the legal statement of the distribution and usage rights of those wishing to view and/or re-use the content) The jspwiki.org site contains the text "Copyright © 2009 individual contributors", which establishes the intellectual property ownership of the content to reside with the original contributors. That effectively locks the content to that site, unless one could contact all the contributors and get them to sign off on moving it, which would be next to impossible. You can't retroactively create a license for the content either since that license wasn't in place at the time the contributors were contributing. So that content must remain there. Even pulling off individual revisions of known contributors would be extremely difficult. The contents of the doc.jspwiki.org site are labeled "(c) Copyrighted work licensed under the Creative Commons BY-3.0 License.", so the content there can be moved as according to that license. This is one of the reasons I've been trying (on wikis I've managed) to get a license statement in place (generally CC for content works fine) prior to the first person contributing anything. In practice it's probably very unlikely that anyone who's contributed to jspwiki.org would put up any fuss about moving the content, but legally it'd be an issue that perhaps the Apache Foundation might be wary of...
        Hide
        Janne Jalkanen added a comment -

        I seem to recall that the official documentation of an Apache project must reside in ASF infra and modifiable only by ASF people. This suggests that we should move the contents of doc.jspwiki.org to svn, and retire doc.jspwiki.org.

        I think we need an inofficial wiki as well. I'd be happy to run jspwiki.org off ASF infra, but I can keep hosting it indefinitely as well...

        Show
        Janne Jalkanen added a comment - I seem to recall that the official documentation of an Apache project must reside in ASF infra and modifiable only by ASF people. This suggests that we should move the contents of doc.jspwiki.org to svn, and retire doc.jspwiki.org. I think we need an inofficial wiki as well. I'd be happy to run jspwiki.org off ASF infra, but I can keep hosting it indefinitely as well...
        Hide
        Harry Metske added a comment -

        I checked http://www.apache.org/dev/project-names.html, and to me seems that the name JSPWiki is fine.
        The official website should be jspwiki.apache.org, the same naming scheme as other projects like httpd, apache, jackrabbit and so on.
        We already have http://incubator.apache.org/jspwiki/, but that site is not maintained properly.

        But still then the question remains "what to do with jspwiki.org" ?
        What to do with the content ?
        Is it oke to let it run on "Janne's infrastructure" ?

        It would be nice if we could run a JSPWiki (eat our own dog food) on ASF infrastructure, have the domain name jspwiki.apache.org, and move the contents of jspwiki.org to that new JSPWiki. (Or should we start from scratch, and start with the official documentation ?).

        Show
        Harry Metske added a comment - I checked http://www.apache.org/dev/project-names.html , and to me seems that the name JSPWiki is fine. The official website should be jspwiki.apache.org, the same naming scheme as other projects like httpd, apache, jackrabbit and so on. We already have http://incubator.apache.org/jspwiki/ , but that site is not maintained properly. But still then the question remains "what to do with jspwiki.org" ? What to do with the content ? Is it oke to let it run on "Janne's infrastructure" ? It would be nice if we could run a JSPWiki (eat our own dog food) on ASF infrastructure, have the domain name jspwiki.apache.org, and move the contents of jspwiki.org to that new JSPWiki. (Or should we start from scratch, and start with the official documentation ?).

          People

          • Assignee:
            Andrew Jaquith
            Reporter:
            Janne Jalkanen
          • Votes:
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            Dates

            • Created:
              Updated:
              Resolved:

              Development